Cappuccino and A4D

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Cappuccino and A4D

Justin Will
Aparajita,

 

I have noticed that you are an advocate of using Cappuccino and one of the
contributors.  I am evaluating various web building tools to replace a Flash
based front end to a 4D system.  Based on your knowledge of Cappuccino and
A4D would they be a good combination for building a web app?  Secondly,  If
so have you done this and have any samples you could share?

 

Thanks

Justin Will

 

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Re: Cappuccino and A4D

aparajita
Administrator
Hi Justin,

> I have noticed that you are an advocate of using Cappuccino and one of the
> contributors.

Yes, I'm one of the core developers.


> Based on your knowledge of Cappuccino and
> A4D would they be a good combination for building a web app?

Yes, I have used them together, it's a great combination. Cappuccino really doesn't care what is on the back end, it just wants JSON data.


>  Secondly,  If
> so have you done this and have any samples you could share?

Not at the moment. I could put something together if you are really serious about it.

Regards,

   Aparajita
   www.aparajitaworld.com

   "If you dare to fail, you are bound to succeed."
   - Sri Chinmoy   |   www.srichinmoy.org

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Re: Cappuccino and A4D

Justin Will
In reply to this post by Justin Will
Aparajita,

 

I truly value your opinion and you saying A4D works well with Cappuccino is
great news.  I have one more set of questions that I'm hoping you can
clarify.  Most of my application is straight input/output type forms.  There
are a couple of things though that are not and I have not seen anything like
it anywhere in samples for Cappuccino.  I have a iCal type calendar (in the
4D world think hmCal), a Gantt chart (again hmCal) and html editor like
ckeditor.  Are controls like this available in cappuccino or could they be
easily developed?

 

Thanks

Justin

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Re: Cappuccino and A4D

aparajita
Administrator
Justin,

> I have a iCal type calendar (in the 4D world think hmCal)

There is an iCal knockoff out there that is fairly functional, you could start with that.


> a Gantt chart (again hmCal)

Don't know of anything out there yet, it wouldn't be hard to implement.


> and html editor like
> ckeditor.

Check https://github.com/cappuccino/cappuccino/wiki/Modules, there are a few possibilities.

Regards,

   Aparajita
   www.aparajitaworld.com

   "If you dare to fail, you are bound to succeed."
   - Sri Chinmoy   |   www.srichinmoy.org

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Re: Cappuccino and A4D

Mehboob Alam-5
We use Cappuccino here for a project and continue to invest in it. Backend
is 4Dv12 (moving to v13 soon) and Active4D.

Excellent tool, even though I'm not a master and did not develop it. If you
need some references, I could discuss this offline with you.


On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 12:06 PM, Aparajita Fishman <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Justin,
>
> > I have a iCal type calendar (in the 4D world think hmCal)
>
> There is an iCal knockoff out there that is fairly functional, you could
> start with that.
>
>
> > a Gantt chart (again hmCal)
>
> Don't know of anything out there yet, it wouldn't be hard to implement.
>
>
> > and html editor like
> > ckeditor.
>
> Check https://github.com/cappuccino/cappuccino/wiki/Modules, there are a
> few possibilities.
>
> Regards,
>
>    Aparajita
>    www.aparajitaworld.com
>
>    "If you dare to fail, you are bound to succeed."
>    - Sri Chinmoy   |   www.srichinmoy.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Active4D-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://list.aparajitaworld.com/listinfo/active4d-dev
> Archives: http://active4d-nabble.aparajitaworld.com/
>



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Re: Cappuccino and A4D

Todd Freese
Cappuccino works great with A4D. We use it heavily in 2 large projects.

Todd


On Apr 22, 2013, at 11:44 AM, Mehboob Alam <[hidden email]> wrote:

> We use Cappuccino here for a project and continue to invest in it. Backend
> is 4Dv12 (moving to v13 soon) and Active4D.
>
> Excellent tool, even though I'm not a master and did not develop it. If you
> need some references, I could discuss this offline with you.
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 12:06 PM, Aparajita Fishman <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Justin,
>>
>>> I have a iCal type calendar (in the 4D world think hmCal)
>>
>> There is an iCal knockoff out there that is fairly functional, you could
>> start with that.
>>
>>
>>> a Gantt chart (again hmCal)
>>
>> Don't know of anything out there yet, it wouldn't be hard to implement.
>>
>>
>>> and html editor like
>>> ckeditor.
>>
>> Check https://github.com/cappuccino/cappuccino/wiki/Modules, there are a
>> few possibilities.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>   Aparajita
>>   www.aparajitaworld.com
>>
>>   "If you dare to fail, you are bound to succeed."
>>   - Sri Chinmoy   |   www.srichinmoy.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Active4D-dev mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://list.aparajitaworld.com/listinfo/active4d-dev
>> Archives: http://active4d-nabble.aparajitaworld.com/
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> m|a
> _______________________________________________
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> This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
> For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
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Re: Cappuccino and A4D

Peter Gutbrod
In reply to this post by aparajita
>>  Secondly,  If
>> so have you done this and have any samples you could share?
>
> Not at the moment. I could put something together if you are really serious
> about it.

As we are talking 4D/A4D and Cappuccino, a simple Cappuccino app with an
accompanying 4D demo database doing the basic database interactions, aka.
present a selection in list view and add/modifiy a record in detail view,
would be a welcome bootstrap for people interested in creating their own
Cappuccino frontend to  4D/A4D .

Would be great if Aparajita or someone else with Cappuccino/A4D experience
(Todd, Mehboob?) could put this together and make it available for the
community.


Regards

Peter


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Re: Cappuccino and A4D

Justin Will
In reply to this post by Justin Will
Todd,

 

Do you have regrets with choosing cappuccino or do you feel it will serve as
a good base for years to come?  Back when we choose to use flex we choose it
for the same reasons that I would be choosing cappuccino.  Beautiful desktop
like applications with a real development environment.  It seems from
researching Cappuccino might be an environment like that I'm just afraid to
get burned twice and have yet a 3rd rewrite.

 

At the moment I'm really vacillating between html, css, jquery and jquery ui
and rocking it old school with a multi-page application and Cappuccino.

 

Thanks

Justin

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Re: Cappuccino and A4D

Todd Freese
I think cappuccino is by far the best framework for creating desktop-like web applications. It's amazing and keeps getting better and better. It can handle almost anything you can throw at it. We have been using it since the 0.1.

However, I will state that I am a cocoa programmer, so it was super easy for me to learn. If you have never programmed in Cocoa, I would say Cappuccino has a fairly heavy learning curve. It's not something you can pick up in a weekend.

Todd


On Apr 23, 2013, at 10:15 AM, Justin Will <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Todd,
>
>
>
> Do you have regrets with choosing cappuccino or do you feel it will serve as
> a good base for years to come?  Back when we choose to use flex we choose it
> for the same reasons that I would be choosing cappuccino.  Beautiful desktop
> like applications with a real development environment.  It seems from
> researching Cappuccino might be an environment like that I'm just afraid to
> get burned twice and have yet a 3rd rewrite.
>
>
>
> At the moment I'm really vacillating between html, css, jquery and jquery ui
> and rocking it old school with a multi-page application and Cappuccino.
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Justin
>
> _______________________________________________
> Active4D-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://list.aparajitaworld.com/listinfo/active4d-dev
> Archives: http://active4d-nabble.aparajitaworld.com/
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
> For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
> ______________________________________________________________________


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Re: Cappuccino and A4D

Tom DeMeo
In reply to this post by Justin Will
Hi,

I know that a number of developers on this list have invested in development using Capuccino, particularly Aparajita himself.

Most of the comments have been about how good it is, but not about whether it will become popular enough to invest in.

The more important question is whether Capuccino as a framework will break through in popularity to a sufficient level to justify a multi-year commitment. This is another language to learn, after all. Flex met that threshold. Will Capuccino? That is not an indictment on the quality of the framework. Most of these initiatives just don't get there. And let's face it. Unless it does get there, going down this road would probably be a mistake for most developers and most projects.

Can anyone speak to whether Capuccino is gaining enough traction to be a legitimate framework for the long term?


Tom D

On Apr 23, 2013, at 11:15 AM, Justin Will wrote:

> Todd,
>
>
>
> Do you have regrets with choosing cappuccino or do you feel it will serve as
> a good base for years to come?  Back when we choose to use flex we choose it
> for the same reasons that I would be choosing cappuccino.  Beautiful desktop
> like applications with a real development environment.  It seems from
> researching Cappuccino might be an environment like that I'm just afraid to
> get burned twice and have yet a 3rd rewrite.
>
>
>
> At the moment I'm really vacillating between html, css, jquery and jquery ui
> and rocking it old school with a multi-page application and Cappuccino.
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Justin
>
> _______________________________________________
> Active4D-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://list.aparajitaworld.com/listinfo/active4d-dev
> Archives: http://active4d-nabble.aparajitaworld.com/
>
>

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Re: Cappuccino and A4D

Mehboob Alam-5
There are about a dozen+ JavaScript frameworks out there.. I know, I've
checked out most of them.

Choosing any of them on a popularity contest is difficult. I'd say no one
framework has crossed the threshold of 10% usage. (Don't ask me where I got
this number).


On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 11:35 AM, THOMAS DEMEO
<[hidden email]>wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I know that a number of developers on this list have invested in
> development using Capuccino, particularly Aparajita himself.
>
> Most of the comments have been about how good it is, but not about whether
> it will become popular enough to invest in.
>
> The more important question is whether Capuccino as a framework will break
> through in popularity to a sufficient level to justify a multi-year
> commitment. This is another language to learn, after all. Flex met that
> threshold. Will Capuccino? That is not an indictment on the quality of the
> framework. Most of these initiatives just don't get there. And let's face
> it. Unless it does get there, going down this road would probably be a
> mistake for most developers and most projects.
>
> Can anyone speak to whether Capuccino is gaining enough traction to be a
> legitimate framework for the long term?
>
>
> Tom D
>
> On Apr 23, 2013, at 11:15 AM, Justin Will wrote:
>
> > Todd,
> >
> >
> >
> > Do you have regrets with choosing cappuccino or do you feel it will
> serve as
> > a good base for years to come?  Back when we choose to use flex we
> choose it
> > for the same reasons that I would be choosing cappuccino.  Beautiful
> desktop
> > like applications with a real development environment.  It seems from
> > researching Cappuccino might be an environment like that I'm just afraid
> to
> > get burned twice and have yet a 3rd rewrite.
> >
> >
> >
> > At the moment I'm really vacillating between html, css, jquery and
> jquery ui
> > and rocking it old school with a multi-page application and Cappuccino.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Justin
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Active4D-dev mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://list.aparajitaworld.com/listinfo/active4d-dev
> > Archives: http://active4d-nabble.aparajitaworld.com/
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Active4D-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://list.aparajitaworld.com/listinfo/active4d-dev
> Archives: http://active4d-nabble.aparajitaworld.com/
>



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Re: Cappuccino and A4D

Justin Will
In reply to this post by Justin Will
Thomas,

 

Your comments about traction are great.  However, being a 4D and Active4D
guy I already feel I'm in a world lacking traction.  Whether my selected
platform is popular or not is not of great important to me.  Productivity,
UI robustness and ease of building that robustness and longevity of the
platform is important.  So being a 4D guy I think traction is the wrong word
I'm looking for but rather longevity.

 

I know.traction and longevity tend to go hand in hand.

 

I guess I would like to know do people believe that Cappuccino appear to
have longevity?  I fear this since 280 North appears to be out of the
picture.

 

Thanks

Justin

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Re: Cappuccino and A4D

Todd Freese
In reply to this post by Tom DeMeo
I think it will. Currently, it is heavy used in in-house corporate environments. We are seeing more and more public sites starting to use it.

Also, given the huge amount of developers for iPhone, this is a perfect fit to use what you already know and apply it to the web. This is how I came to it. Having one "general" technology to write to Mac desktop, mobile, and web is really compelling.

Todd


On Apr 23, 2013, at 10:35 AM, THOMAS DEMEO <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I know that a number of developers on this list have invested in development using Capuccino, particularly Aparajita himself.
>
> Most of the comments have been about how good it is, but not about whether it will become popular enough to invest in.
>
> The more important question is whether Capuccino as a framework will break through in popularity to a sufficient level to justify a multi-year commitment. This is another language to learn, after all. Flex met that threshold. Will Capuccino? That is not an indictment on the quality of the framework. Most of these initiatives just don't get there. And let's face it. Unless it does get there, going down this road would probably be a mistake for most developers and most projects.
>
> Can anyone speak to whether Capuccino is gaining enough traction to be a legitimate framework for the long term?
>
>
> Tom D
>
> On Apr 23, 2013, at 11:15 AM, Justin Will wrote:
>
>> Todd,
>>
>>
>>
>> Do you have regrets with choosing cappuccino or do you feel it will serve as
>> a good base for years to come?  Back when we choose to use flex we choose it
>> for the same reasons that I would be choosing cappuccino.  Beautiful desktop
>> like applications with a real development environment.  It seems from
>> researching Cappuccino might be an environment like that I'm just afraid to
>> get burned twice and have yet a 3rd rewrite.
>>
>>
>>
>> At the moment I'm really vacillating between html, css, jquery and jquery ui
>> and rocking it old school with a multi-page application and Cappuccino.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Justin
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Active4D-dev mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://list.aparajitaworld.com/listinfo/active4d-dev
>> Archives: http://active4d-nabble.aparajitaworld.com/
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Active4D-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://list.aparajitaworld.com/listinfo/active4d-dev
> Archives: http://active4d-nabble.aparajitaworld.com/
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
> For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com
> ______________________________________________________________________


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Re: Cappuccino and A4D

aparajita
Administrator
In reply to this post by Tom DeMeo
> The more important question is whether Capuccino as a framework will break through in popularity to a sufficient level to justify a multi-year commitment.

I have made a serious commitment to ensure that happens. I have raised enough money to spend a few months exclusively on Cappuccino so that it will be mature enough to reach a much broader market.

Cappuccino is too good not to succeed. It just needs to mature a little as a platform. That's what I'm working on.


> Can anyone speak to whether Capuccino is gaining enough traction to be a legitimate framework for the long term?

All I can say is that new Cappuccino developers are coming on board every day.

Regards,

   Aparajita
   www.aparajitaworld.com

   "If you dare to fail, you are bound to succeed."
   - Sri Chinmoy   |   www.srichinmoy.org

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Re: Cappuccino and A4D

Tom DeMeo
In reply to this post by Justin Will
Your distinction between traction and longevity is well put. Still, realize that 4D is an outlier in that it never gained traction, yet somehow outlasted almost every other technology that started at the same time. That is not typical.

I'm not saying Cappuccino is a bad choice. I'm just laying out a criteria for considering it. The fact that mobile developers will find it familiar is a very strong point in favor of it. I just would tend to be biased towards investing in javascript based solutions. Even if the framework goes away, you still be a better javascript programmer.


Tom


On Apr 23, 2013, at 11:52 AM, Justin Will wrote:

> Thomas,
>
>
>
> Your comments about traction are great.  However, being a 4D and Active4D
> guy I already feel I'm in a world lacking traction.  Whether my selected
> platform is popular or not is not of great important to me.  Productivity,
> UI robustness and ease of building that robustness and longevity of the
> platform is important.  So being a 4D guy I think traction is the wrong word
> I'm looking for but rather longevity.
>
>
>
> I know.traction and longevity tend to go hand in hand.
>
>
>
> I guess I would like to know do people believe that Cappuccino appear to
> have longevity?  I fear this since 280 North appears to be out of the
> picture.
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Justin
>
> _______________________________________________
> Active4D-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://list.aparajitaworld.com/listinfo/active4d-dev
> Archives: http://active4d-nabble.aparajitaworld.com/
>
>

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Re: Cappuccino and A4D

Justin Will
In reply to this post by Justin Will
This is exactly why I think it might be worth the investment to learn Obj-J.

 

>Having one "general" technology to write to Mac desktop, mobile, and web is
really compelling.

 

Thanks

Justin

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Re: Cappuccino and A4D

aparajita
Administrator
In reply to this post by Tom DeMeo
> Even if the framework goes away, you still be a better javascript programmer.

Not really. Javascript as a language is pretty thin, there really isn't much to learn. It's the frameworks that take time to master. That's where the investment is.

Learning Cappuccino teaches you Cocoa/iOS and real object-oriented programming. And Objective-J *is* still Javascript, but with added features.

Also, note that Cappuccino is meant only for web *applications* that work like a desktop application, not for web *sites* that need multiple pages.

Regards,

   Aparajita
   www.aparajitaworld.com

   "If you dare to fail, you are bound to succeed."
   - Sri Chinmoy   |   www.srichinmoy.org

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Re: Cappuccino and A4D

Justin Will
In reply to this post by Justin Will
I just wanted to second Peter's call for a bootstrap/sample project to help
some of us understand how to put together a simple input/output  or
list/edit type if you will sample using A4D and Cappuccino.

 

Thanks

Justin

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Re: Cappuccino and A4D

Mehboob Alam-5
For the comment on longevity.. open-source based projects, by definition,
automatically can survive for 5 years beyond the abandonment of their core
technology. I hope to imply that and open-source technology is safe because
"you" control the source code. Just something that needed to be said, even
if it's obvious?


On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 5:20 PM, Justin Will <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I just wanted to second Peter's call for a bootstrap/sample project to help
> some of us understand how to put together a simple input/output  or
> list/edit type if you will sample using A4D and Cappuccino.
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Justin
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Re: Cappuccino and A4D

aparajita
Administrator
In reply to this post by Justin Will
> I just wanted to second Peter's call for a bootstrap/sample project to help
> some of us understand how to put together a simple input/output  or
> list/edit type if you will sample using A4D and Cappuccino.

I'm working on a major enhancement to Cappuccino, as soon as I'm done with that I'll do an example project, probably with a screencast.

Regards,

   Aparajita
   www.aparajitaworld.com

   "If you dare to fail, you are bound to succeed."
   - Sri Chinmoy   |   www.srichinmoy.org

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